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Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 04:00:15 PDT From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <info-hams@ucsd.edu> Errors-To: Info-Hams-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #936 To: Info-Hams Info-Hams Digest Sat, 20 Aug 94 Volume 94 : Issue 936 Today's Topics: Daily Summary of Solar Geophysical Activity for 17 August FCC license renewal processing time data point Have You Ever Noticed? Internet gateway to packet radio in W IPS Daily Report - 18 August 94 KA-PK Gold QSL route? for GJ3ULT Satellite Data TNC Recommendation Tone board for a Santec ST-142 VHF: non-FM Why Some people hate Wayne Green Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu> Send subscription requests to: <Info-Hams-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu> Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 16:53:10 MDT From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!alberta!ve6mgs!usenet@network.ucsd.edu Subject: Daily Summary of Solar Geophysical Activity for 17 August To: info-hams@ucsd.edu /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ DAILY SUMMARY OF SOLAR GEOPHYSICAL ACTIVITY 17 AUGUST, 1994 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ (Based In-Part On SESC Observational Data) SOLAR AND GEOPHYSICAL ACTIVITY INDICES FOR 17 AUGUST, 1994 ---------------------------------------------------------- !!BEGIN!! (1.0) S.T.D. Solar Geophysical Data Broadcast for DAY 229, 08/17/94 10.7 FLUX=077.6 90-AVG=078 SSN=073 BKI=2332 2100 BAI=006 BGND-XRAY=A4.0 FLU1=9.8E+05 FLU10=1.3E+04 PKI=2332 2211 PAI=007 BOU-DEV=015,026,037,018,016,005,002,002 DEV-AVG=015 NT SWF=01:013 XRAY-MAX= M1.5 @ 0111UT XRAY-MIN= A1.6 @ 1700UT XRAY-AVG= B3.3 NEUTN-MAX= +002% @ 2235UT NEUTN-MIN= -003% @ 0255UT NEUTN-AVG= +0.1% PCA-MAX= +0.2DB @ 1640UT PCA-MIN= -0.4DB @ 1810UT PCA-AVG= +0.0DB BOUTF-MAX=55223NT @ 1347UT BOUTF-MIN=55195NT @ 1724UT BOUTF-AVG=55214NT GOES7-MAX=P:+000NT@ 0000UT GOES7-MIN=N:+000NT@ 0000UT G7-AVG=+072,+000,+000 GOES6-MAX=P:+116NT@ 2050UT GOES6-MIN=N:-027NT@ 2142UT G6-AVG=+100,+030,-009 FLUXFCST=STD:075,075,075;SESC:075,075,075 BAI/PAI-FCST=010,010,010/010,010,010 KFCST=2225 5112 2224 4112 27DAY-AP=013,006 27DAY-KP=2343 3223 2322 2111 WARNINGS=*MAJFLR;*SWF ALERTS=**MINFLR:M1.5/1N@0111,S15W35(7765) !!END-DATA!! NOTE: The Effective Sunspot Number for 16 AUG 94 was 23.0. The Full Kp Indices for 16 AUG 94 are: 3o 3- 2o 3- 2o 1+ 3- 3- The 3-Hr Ap Indices for 16 AUG 94 are: 15 11 9 12 8 5 13 14 Greater than 2 MeV Electron Fluence for 17 AUG is: 4.9E+08 SYNOPSIS OF ACTIVITY -------------------- Solar activity was moderate. Region 7765 (S12W52) grew in area and magnetic complexity. This region produced an M1/1N flare at 17/0111Z and two C-class flares. Solar activity forecast: solar activity is expected to be low. Region 7765 has M-flare potential. The geomagnetic field has been at quiet to unsettled levels for the past 24 hours. The greater than 2 MeV electron flux was high at geosynchronous orbit altitudes. Geophysical activity forecast: the geomagnetic field is expected to be unsettled. High latitude stations may record brief active periods due to night-time substorming. Event probabilities 18 aug-20 aug Class M 25/25/25 Class X 01/01/01 Proton 01/01/01 PCAF Green Geomagnetic activity probabilities 18 aug-20 aug A. Middle Latitudes Active 25/15/15 Minor Storm 10/10/10 Major-Severe Storm 05/01/01 B. High Latitudes Active 30/20/20 Minor Storm 15/10/10 Major-Severe Storm 05/05/05 HF propagation conditions continued near-normal over all regions today. The possible flare-related disturbance did not arrive. Near-normal propagation should continue over the next 72 hours, through 20 August inclusive. COPIES OF JOINT USAF/NOAA SESC SOLAR GEOPHYSICAL REPORTS ======================================================== REGIONS WITH SUNSPOTS. LOCATIONS VALID AT 17/2400Z AUGUST --------------------------------------------------------- NMBR LOCATION LO AREA Z LL NN MAG TYPE 7764 S06W13 356 0040 HSX 02 001 ALPHA 7765 S12W52 035 0190 EAO 12 013 BETA 7766 N09E04 339 0010 BXO 02 004 BETA 7767 S12E31 312 0010 AXX 01 002 ALPHA 7768 S13E42 301 0010 BXO 02 003 BETA REGIONS DUE TO RETURN 18 AUGUST TO 20 AUGUST NMBR LAT LO NONE LISTING OF SOLAR ENERGETIC EVENTS FOR 17 AUGUST, 1994 ----------------------------------------------------- BEGIN MAX END RGN LOC XRAY OP 245MHZ 10CM SWEEP 0058 0111 0120 7765 S15W35 M1.5 1N POSSIBLE CORONAL MASS EJECTION EVENTS FOR 17 AUGUST, 1994 --------------------------------------------------------- BEGIN MAX END LOCATION TYPE SIZE DUR II IV NO DATA PRESENTLY AVAILABLE INFERRED CORONAL HOLES. LOCATIONS VALID AT 17/2400Z --------------------------------------------------- ISOLATED HOLES AND POLAR EXTENSIONS EAST SOUTH WEST NORTH CAR TYPE POL AREA OBSN NONE DATA AVAILABLE FOR ANALYSIS SUMMARY OF FLARE EVENTS FOR THE PREVIOUS UTC DAY ------------------------------------------------ Date Begin Max End Xray Op Region Locn 2695 MHz 8800 MHz 15.4 GHz ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- -- ------ ------ --------- --------- --------- 16 Aug: 0224 0259 0312 B4.7 0313 0323 0332 B8.0 SF 7765 S12W27 0935 0938 0943 SF 7765 S11W30 1142 1148 1155 B4.5 1200 1212 1223 B5.7 SF 7765 S12W30 1245 1249 1251 B4.6 1318 1327 1334 C1.2 1502 1513 1519 B1.1 1549 1600 1603 B2.5 1715 1724 1740 B3.0 1755 1759 1827 B4.1 SF 7765 S13W33 2103 2112 2120 B1.6 2259 2312 2323 B5.6 REGION FLARE STATISTICS FOR THE PREVIOUS UTC DAY ------------------------------------------------ C M X S 1 2 3 4 Total (%) -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- ------ Region 7765: 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 004 (30.8) Uncorrellated: 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 009 (69.2) Total Events: 013 optical and x-ray. EVENTS WITH SWEEPS AND/OR OPTICAL PHENOMENA FOR THE LAST UTC DAY ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date Begin Max End Xray Op Region Locn Sweeps/Optical Observations ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- -- ------ ------ --------------------------- NO EVENTS OBSERVED. NOTES: All times are in Universal Time (UT). Characters preceding begin, max, and end times are defined as: B = Before, U = Uncertain, A = After. All times associated with x-ray flares (ex. flares which produce associated x-ray bursts) refer to the begin, max, and end times of the x-rays. Flares which are not associated with x-ray signatures use the optical observations to determine the begin, max, and end times. Acronyms used to identify sweeps and optical phenomena include: II = Type II Sweep Frequency Event III = Type III Sweep IV = Type IV Sweep V = Type V Sweep Continuum = Continuum Radio Event Loop = Loop Prominence System, Spray = Limb Spray, Surge = Bright Limb Surge, EPL = Eruptive Prominence on the Limb. ** End of Daily Report ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 21:48:29 GMT From: newsfeed.pitt.edu!gvls1!rossi@uunet.uu.net Subject: FCC license renewal processing time data point To: info-hams@ucsd.edu For those who are keeping score... I mailed my 610 for a simple renewal (no call change, no address change, etc) directly to Gettysburg on July 18. My new license is effective August 15, was postmarked August 17, and arrived today, August 19. The new effective date is exactly 4 weeks from my 610 mailing date. Just makes you wonder, how much more work can it be to issue a new license vs. process a renewal? 17 weeks vs. 4 weeks? I guess there are just less applications in the renewal pipeline and they push them right through... Well now I am good for another 10 years :-) ================================================================= Pete Rossi - WA3NNA rossi@vfl.paramax.COM Unisys Corporation - Government Systems Group Valley Forge Engineering Center - Paoli, Pennsylvania ================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 1994 11:45:30 -0700 From: pacbell.com!well!barrnet.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!chnews!ornews.intel@ihnp4.ucsd.edu Subject: Have You Ever Noticed? To: info-hams@ucsd.edu In article <1994Aug15.105157.1@aspen.uml.edu> martinja@aspen.uml.edu writes: >Comments anyone? I did notice how much the subject line on this posting makes it look like a packet message. I have noticed that many amateurs speak way too close to the mic so that you can hear their heavy breathing and other animal noises. I have noticed that hams who use colorful euphemisms like "hi hi" and "QSL" seem to have the least interesting conversations. I have noticed that packet backbones seem to have taken over almost all the 222 Mhz voice simplex channels. I have noticed that the average content of rec.radio.amateur.misc has changed. -- zardoz@ornews.intel.com WA7LDV Leave it to the BEAVER state I speak only for myself. <<< OREGON >>> ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 1994 20:43:03 GMT From: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!hacktic!xs4all.hacktic.nl!paulv@ames.arpa Subject: Internet gateway to packet radio in W To: info-hams@ucsd.edu Hi there, Some time ago I read something about the possibility of reaching the packet radio network in the US through an Internet gateway. Does someone knows this gateway? How to reach/address?? Thanks....Paul(PA3APA) -- ==================================================================== Paul H. Vogel Internet: paulv@hacktic.nl Amsterdam/Neth Compuserve: 76630,2370 ==================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 23:10:57 GMT From: cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!aggedor.rmit.EDU.AU!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!ipso!rwc@RUTGERS.EDU Subject: IPS Daily Report - 18 August 94 To: info-hams@ucsd.edu SUBJ: IPS DAILY SOLAR AND GEOPHYSICAL REPORT ISSUED AT 18/2330Z AUGUST 1994 BY IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES FROM THE REGIONAL WARNING CENTRE (RWC), SYDNEY. SUMMARY FOR 18 AUGUST AND FORECAST FOR 19 AUGUST - 21 AUGUST ----------------------------------------------------------- 1A. SOLAR SUMMARY Activity: moderate Flares Max Fadeout Begin End Freq. Sectors M1/1F 0258UT confirmed M1/-- 1501UT none Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 77/16 GOES satellite data for 17 Aug Daily Proton Fluence >1 MeV: 9.8E+05 Daily Proton Fluence >10 MeV: 1.3E+04 Daily Electron Fluence >2 MeV: 4.9E+08 X-ray background: A4.0 Fluence (flux accumulation over 24hrs)/ cm2-ster-day. 1B. SOLAR FORECAST 19 Aug 20 Aug 21 Aug Activity Low to moderate Low Low Fadeouts Possible None expected None expected Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number for 19 Aug: 75/13 ----------------------------------------------------------- 2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY Geomagnetic field at Learmonth: quiet to unsettled Estimated Indices : A K Observed A Index 17 Aug Learmonth 10 2233 3222 Fredericksburg 8 8 Planetary 8 7 Observed Kp for 17 Aug: 2332 2211 2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST DATE Ap CONDITIONS 19 Aug 10 Quiet to unsettled 20 Aug 10 Quiet to unsettled 21 Aug 10 Quiet to unsettled ----------------------------------------------------------- 3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY LATITUDE BAND DATE LOW MIDDLE HIGH 18 Aug fair-normal normal normal PCA Event : None. 3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST LATITUDE BAND DATE LOW MIDDLE HIGH 19 Aug normal normal normal 20 Aug normal normal normal 21 Aug normal normal normal ----------------------------------------------------------- 4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY Observed DATE T-index MUFs at Sydney 18 Aug 18 near predicted monthly values Predicted Monthly T-index for August: 20 4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST DATE T-index MUFs 19 Aug 18 Near predicted monthly values 20 Aug 20 Near predicted monthly values 21 Aug 20 Near predicted monthly values -- IPS Regional Warning Centre, Sydney |IPS Radio and Space Services RWC Duty Forecaster tel: +61 2 4148329 |PO Box 5606 Recorded Message tel: +61 2 4148330 |West Chatswood NSW 2057 email: rwc@ips.oz.au fax: +61 2 4148331 |AUSTRALIA ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 94 17:57:54 -0400 From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!alison.sbc.edu!grimm@network.ucsd.edu Subject: KA-PK Gold To: info-hams@ucsd.edu > I always feel ripped off by AEA. The upgrade price for the ROMS for the > PK232 is way out of line. It is only becasue they have that captive > audience. I really regret the purchase many times but I am stuck for now. I > will consider upgrade costs much more carefully the next time around. I think > 75 bucks for two roms is WAY out of line and it has been more than that for > some. That is what it cost to gain only PACTOR. > Given what you know now, which other multimode would you opt for? -- ___________________________________________________________ Kenneth D. Grimm K4XL grimm@alison.sbc.edu ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 08:50:03 GMT From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!pipex!dsbc.icl.co.@ihnp4.ucsd.edu Subject: QSL route? for GJ3ULT To: info-hams@ucsd.edu In article <Cup5Js.HKy@nntpa.cb.att.com>, dara@physics.att.com (Shel Darack) writes: > Months ago I worked GJ3ULT. There's no callbook listing but it > was suggested that I try sending it to G3ULT who holds the only > call with "ULT" and might also be GJ3ULT. Unfortunately, there > was no response to my qsl and postage. Any other suggestions > from the UK? > tnx Shel WA2UBK dara@physics.att.com > G3ULT is the call sign of the Reading And District Amateur Radio Club, winners of the RSGB HF NFD in 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991 etc The licence was taken to Jersey in February and operation took place as GJ3ULT/P. To QSL, you could either try one of the operators (fastest route) John Linford, G3WGV, Canberra Lodge, Heath Ride, Finchampstead, Berkshire, UK or route your card via the buro to G3ULT (slow) 73 Peter G0PUB ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --. --- .- .-- .- -.-- TEL: (01344) 472625 INT: +44 1344 472625 Peter Swynford is available FAX: (01344) 473005 INT: +44 1344 473005 or at prs@oasis.icl.co.uk ICL: 7263-2625 AX25: G0PUB@GB7BEQ.GBR.EU *** Previous witty signature has now passed expiry date. This space to rent. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 1994 04:25:15 GMT From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!foghorn.cc.utexas.edu!kourt@network.ucsd.edu Subject: Satellite Data To: info-hams@ucsd.edu I've been playing around with my satellite program, and I would like to update the elements for all the satellites and for any others I can get my hands on. I have seen some of the uuencoded files on this newsgroup that appear to be amsat or nasa data files. Is this what I need? kourt de Haas austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 1994 00:42:56 GMT From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!k9cw@network.ucsd.edu Subject: TNC Recommendation To: info-hams@ucsd.edu In a previous article, ac742@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Greg Danylchenko) says: > >Here is a loaded question, but if you were to buy a new TNC to-day (given >all that on air experience that you have gained since) which manufacturer >and model would you get? I am looking for the best combination of price >and performance. > >Thanks in advance. >Greg Danylchenko >VE3YTZ > It depends on what you want to do. For VHF packet operation only the KPC-3 and Tiny 2 are good values. If you want other modes as well, the KAM or PK232 might be your best choice. On the other hand, if you just want a cheap way to get on packet, the Baycom at $50 is probably the best route. 73, Drew -- *-----------------------------*-------------------------------------* | Andrew B. White K9CW | internet: k9cw@prairienet.org | | ABW Associates, Ltd. | phone/fax: 217-643-7327 | *-----------------------------*-------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 1994 04:21:11 GMT From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!foghorn.cc.utexas.edu!kourt@network.ucsd.edu Subject: Tone board for a Santec ST-142 To: info-hams@ucsd.edu Dave Sparks (davesparks@delphi.com) wrote: : I have a 10+ year old Santec ST-142 2m HT. It still works pretty well. I : bought it back when I was in the Civil Air Patrol, before I got my ham I also have an ST 142 that was purchased for CAP. The tone board I have is dip-switch controlled, but I don't remember the name of the manufacturer. It seemed to me that this board was pretty easy to come by. I think I got it from an old Dick Smith Electronics catalog. My $0.02 kourt de Haas austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: 18 Aug 1994 16:51:16 GMT From: dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!news.coop.net!news.den.mmc.com!iplmail.orl.mmc.com!mccartney!jcarter@@netnews.upenn.edu Subject: VHF: non-FM To: info-hams@ucsd.edu //Nooooo, nobody doing that stuff anymore. The reason is that a VHF 2 Meter all mode units cost around $1000.00!!!!!! 0 0 000 0 0 000 00 0 0 | James A. Carter | Jcarter@orl.mmc.com 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 0 | FCC Lic. KD4PON | These views are my own and 00 0 0 0000 000 0 0 0 00 | 1-(407)356-5879 | are in no way connected 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 | Martin Mariettia | to MARTIN MARIETTIA. 0 0 000 0 0 00 0 0 | Orlando, FL 32855 | Thanks Jim ------------------------------ Date: 18 Aug 1994 00:34:01 GMT From: eng.iac.honeywell.com!ws07.iac.honeywell.com!dphillips@uunet.uu.net Subject: Why Some people hate Wayne Green To: info-hams@ucsd.edu Seems like there are alot of people out there who just don't like Wayne Green. Some have even cancelled their subscriptions to 73 due to his "homophobic blathering" within its pages. Well, I guess these people probably wouldn't have liked Abe Lincoln, Franklin Rosevelt or Abby Hoffman either. Heck, I don't particularly like the guy, but then again, I don't have to read his collumn either to enjoy the magazine. The fundamental rule of journalism is to write something that is of interest to a sufficient number of people in order to sell a sufficient number of copies to make a profit. Wayne seems to be doing very well in this regard with all of his many publications. Some people just can't take a joke. -- Dave Phillips | "Takeoffs are optional, Phoenix, AZ, USA | Landings are mandatory, dphillips@WS07.iac.honeywell.com | Pilot error is not an accident, KB7JS | All airplanes have personalities." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 18:27:48 GMT From: pacbell.com!pb2esac!jaminge@decwrl.dec.com To: info-hams@ucsd.edu References <YEE.94Aug14182224@mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu>, <32o4c5$r6p@news.nd.edu>, <1994Aug16.170404.1385@rsd.dl.nec.com> Subject : Re: Repeater Directory? In article <1994Aug16.170404.1385@rsd.dl.nec.com> dave@rsd.dl.nec.com (Dave Rogers) writes: >In article <32o4c5$r6p@news.nd.edu>, rnimtz@moe.helios.nd.edu (richard nimtz) writes: > >[snip...] > >|> The phone company used to put dummy entries, names and numbers that didn't >|> exist in real life, in the telephone directory. That way they could look >|> at a competitors directory and easily see of they copied the data. Is the >|> ARRL doing the same thing with the latest repeater directory? There are > >They must be because they list 146.88 here in Dallas and thats a dummy >repeater if I ever heard one :-) > Dave... Just for the sake of discussion... What does a dummy repeater sound like? ;-) -John -- John Minger KE6DTC "Society is like a stew. If you Glendale, CA don't keep it stirred up, you get a <jaminge@PacBell.COM> lot of scum on top." -Edward Abbey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 22:16:10 +0000 From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!arkas.demon.co.uk!Michael@network.ucsd.edu To: info-hams@ucsd.edu References <31rnbb$b6l@baldrick.trimble.co.nz>, <776728443snz@arkas.demon.co.uk>, <32jvp7$i34@newstand.syr.edu> Reply-To : Michael@arkas.demon.co.uk Subject : Re: REQUEST: Help finding WWV receiver! In article <32jvp7$i34@newstand.syr.edu> malamb@newstand.syr.edu "Marie A. Lamb" writes: > Michael J Dower (Michael@arkas.demon.co.uk) wrote: > : Our time signal, VNG, was on 4.5, 7.5 and 12 MHz depending on time of > : day. Now, I don't know where it is since the Gov't gave it away. > Last I knew, VNG was on 2500, 5000, 8638, 12984 and 16000 kHz. Several of > the frequencies have a talking clock that gives the time in English once > a minute, with a voice ID several times an hour. Others have a Morse code > ID. Thanks for the info. Well, that's a vast improvement on it compared to when I started out as an SWL at high school. It had an ident in voice every 30 minutes, and a code by which one could pick the time each minute - I never learnt what it was. :) I know the Gov't gave up the ghost on VNG a few years back, then the Navy filled in with a time signal which couldn't be guaranteed to be there from one day to the next (due to operational reasons), and then the VNG user's group took up the challenge and resited the service to LLandilo (Sydney). I believe that at one time they were on 10 MHz, and luckily they moved it - we couldn't hear WWV! -- Michael J Dower 'Quoth the raven, "Never more".' ... Poe ------------------------------ End of Info-Hams Digest V94 #936 ******************************